Getting released from the army (I'm officially out!)

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8-Hype
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Getting released from the army (I'm officially out!)

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 08 מאי 2009 14:29

Hey, y'all!

Sorry for not writing in Hebrew, I just don't speak it well. I am a conscientious objector (סרבן גיוס) and have been in prison 4 times for a total of 117 days for various "crimes": Hishtamtum, Arikut (2 times) and Siruv Gius.

Now I am getting out of the army, I believe, because I'm got a so-called "וועדת אי התאמה" through an army psychiatrist (קב"ן) whose rank was captain (סרן). This committee (וועדה) is set for May 10th, and I'm unsure what will happen there, this is why I am asking for information here. The psychiatrist said that she wrote a recommendation (המלצה) on me that I am not qualified to serve in the army, and she said that in 99% of all cases that she writes such a thing, the "soldier" is getting out of the army. Should I believe her?

If somebody could give me information on the committee (וועדה), I would be very thankful, and I can also tell you what I did just to get to the psychiatrist (crazy things :mrgreen:).
נערך לאחרונה על ידי 8-Hype ב 25 מאי 2009 15:06, נערך פעם 1 בסך הכל.
Weef
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי Weef » 08 מאי 2009 15:19

dude it's all messed up
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 08 מאי 2009 15:19

hi.
it seems likely that your psychiatrist is right. your imprisonments and a strong recommendation from her can go a long way to secure a discharge.
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 08 מאי 2009 15:20

hi.
it seems likely that your psychiatrist is right. your imprisonments and a strong recommendation from her can go a long way to secure a discharge.
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
- מלכוד-22
8-Hype
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 08 מאי 2009 15:33

במילא רגוע כתב:hi.
it seems likely that your psychiatrist is right. your imprisonments and a strong recommendation from her can go a long way to secure a discharge.


Well, that should help, but here's a little more info:

I have never been recruited to the army. I didn't take their uniform and the Hoger. I basically didn't go there three consecutive times and when I got out the third time (April 7, 2009), I went to the Bacum for the first time since all those imprisonments and said that I won't enlist in the army and they took me to Prison 6. Before that, however, they sent me to their Maatsar. I had a box with my own feces (shit) with me and spilled it all over the place at the Kabala in the Maatsar. The next day the sent me to a psychiatrist (note: not army psychiatrist) and he said that after I'm getting out of prison, I should see an army psychiatrist at Bacum again. Curiously, although I didn't tell him about the shit incident, he already knew about it. Now I saw an army psychiatrist and told her about my problems (mother has breast cancer, etc.) and that I have depressions and have thought a lot about suicide. She said that she wrote a "strong recommendation" that the chance of me being a good soldier is 0%. She said, however, that this is not a decision, just a recommendation, but in 99% of all cases she gives this, the people are getting out.

My question now is, at the "וועדת אי התאמה", what do I have to do to convince them, or was this recommendation enough already? Some people also told me that the army psychiatrist is going to attend, as well, and that they are going to ask me questions. Should I just tell them what I told the Kaban, and are they going to demand any documents? Is it just a formality, or is there a real chance that I won't get released? I also read that once they send you there, it's basically all said and done, just not official yet.

Thanks a lot for your help, I really appreciate it!
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 08 מאי 2009 16:00

it's not a done deal. in some cases it is, the committee knows they're going to discharge you before you set foot in the room. other times, it's borderline and then what they look for is whether you're a lost cause or if there's some chance that you can be set back on track. In any case, i suggest you bring to the meeting whatever documentation you have regarding your problems, problems at home, etc... .as i said, a strong recommendation from the kabanit isn't failsafe, but it certainly helps your case.
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
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8-Hype
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 08 מאי 2009 16:31

Are there also cases where somebody is sent to this committee without a recommendation from a Kaban/Gahelet and has to justify himself in front of the officers? Also, when exactly will I get the decision? Do they tell it to you right away, or are there cases where they contemplate it for a week or so (when it is borderline)?

I guess the only thing left to do is to pray. But when it's all said and done, the conscientious objectors are always victorious!
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 09 מאי 2009 11:03

even with the recommendation, they'll probably ask you questions about your situation. usually they let you know at the end of the committee what they decided, but if they decide to discharge you, their decision is formally only a recommendation for the head of the bakum, and he has to sign off on the decision before its final. as far as i know he almost never rejects the recommendation, so from there on it's practically a done deal, but it's not formal for a week or two.
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
- מלכוד-22
8-Hype
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 09 מאי 2009 11:35

So will they invite me again a week later to pick up the official documents and sign off on them?
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 09 מאי 2009 12:49

i don't know exactly how it goes. i don't think you'll need to sign anything, just get your stuff, do a tofes tiyulim in your unit and in the bakum, and you're done.
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
- מלכוד-22
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי אורח » 09 מאי 2009 22:48

i've been to the committee 2 weeks ago through a recommendation of the army psychiatrist in the bakum. The committee is made up of 4-5 officers, such as the ktzin giyus, mefaked mador sadir, mashakit tash etc. As written above, the decision is usually pre-decided. In my personal case, the recommendation of the psychiatrist didn't hold water. The committee usually looks for a long history of "dafuk", ie. time spent in jail. I therefore assume that in your case the recommendation will be different.
Before entering the committee, you will be asked to sign a form making you aware of the so-called consequences of being released through the committee.
They will start with asking you whether you want to serve and will review some of the relevant documentation. You'll also be given the opportunity to make your case
Much luck, and keep in mind that if you fail this time, there will be other opportunities..
8-Hype
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 10 מאי 2009 08:35

Guest כתב:i've been to the committee 2 weeks ago through a recommendation of the army psychiatrist in the bakum. The committee is made up of 4-5 officers, such as the ktzin giyus, mefaked mador sadir, mashakit tash etc. As written above, the decision is usually pre-decided. In my personal case, the recommendation of the psychiatrist didn't hold water. The committee usually looks for a long history of "dafuk", ie. time spent in jail. I therefore assume that in your case the recommendation will be different.
Before entering the committee, you will be asked to sign a form making you aware of the so-called consequences of being released through the committee.
They will start with asking you whether you want to serve and will review some of the relevant documentation. You'll also be given the opportunity to make your case
Much luck, and keep in mind that if you fail this time, there will be other opportunities..


And did you pass that committee? I also think there's a big difference between me and others who go there: I don't have a unit because I have never been recruited and never took their uniform and military ID.
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי אורח » 10 מאי 2009 10:01

8-Hype כתב:
Guest כתב:i've been to the committee 2 weeks ago through a recommendation of the army psychiatrist in the bakum. The committee is made up of 4-5 officers, such as the ktzin giyus, mefaked mador sadir, mashakit tash etc. As written above, the decision is usually pre-decided. In my personal case, the recommendation of the psychiatrist didn't hold water. The committee usually looks for a long history of "dafuk", ie. time spent in jail. I therefore assume that in your case the recommendation will be different.
Before entering the committee, you will be asked to sign a form making you aware of the so-called consequences of being released through the committee.
They will start with asking you whether you want to serve and will review some of the relevant documentation. You'll also be given the opportunity to make your case
Much luck, and keep in mind that if you fail this time, there will be other opportunities..


And did you pass that committee? I also think there's a big difference between me and others who go there: I don't have a unit because I have never been recruited and never took their uniform and military ID.


Unfortunately, I was not released yet.
My predicament: “Mishtamet Chul” – I’m 26. I was overseas since the age of 18. Just arrive back for a short visit… I’m still in the bakum since recruitment - about a month ago. Trying to be released on “Nafshi”. The committee had already decided in advanced that they wouldn’t let me go. They were trying to “accommodate” me in other ways, such as shortening my service time, suggesting “dchiyat Sherut” etc

Much luck. Keep us updated.
8-Hype
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 10 מאי 2009 17:50

Which country have you been living in? Are they now not letting you out of this country until the matter is settled?

And why did they decide that beforehand? How do you know? And what was your recommendation like? The Kaban told me that me being released with this recommendation has a chance of 99%. What was it in your case? What did the Kaban tell you?
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי אורח » 10 מאי 2009 22:42

A day or two prior to the vaada I was seeing the ktsin miyun. Coming straight from the psychiatrist, I told the ktsin miyun of his recommendation (apparently, he was unaware of the recommendation so he was about to send me to training, not until he personally called the psychiatrist to confirm…) to which the ktsin miyun replied: “don’t be so sure that the committee will release you”.
When I showed up to the vaada, the ktsin miyun was seated as part of the panel…
They started with directing the question: “do you want to serve?” and irregardless of my reply, I was advised that the committee didn’t find grounds to release me (despite my age, being married, living overseas, profile 45 etc.). But rather accommodate me in other ways it sees suitable.

I must say that your case draws no similarities and the probability of your imminent release is high.
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי אורח » 10 מאי 2009 23:34

אורח כתב:A day or two prior to the vaada I was seeing the ktsin miyun. Coming straight from the psychiatrist, I told the ktsin miyun of his recommendation (apparently, he was unaware of the recommendation so he was about to send me to training, not until he personally called the psychiatrist to confirm…) to which the ktsin miyun replied: “don’t be so sure that the committee will release you”.
When I showed up to the vaada, the ktsin miyun was seated as part of the panel…
They started with directing the question: “do you want to serve?” and irregardless of my reply, I was advised that the committee didn’t find grounds to release me (despite my age, being married, living overseas, profile 45 etc.). But rather accommodate me in other ways it sees suitable.

I must say that your case draws no similarities and the probability of your imminent release is high.


UNFUCKING believable!

If I were you, I would get on the first flight that is leaving tonight, and get the hell out of this country...

Come'on... If I were in your position and living abroad I would never even consider returning here
8-Hype
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 11 מאי 2009 07:40

Guest כתב:A day or two prior to the vaada I was seeing the ktsin miyun. Coming straight from the psychiatrist, I told the ktsin miyun of his recommendation (apparently, he was unaware of the recommendation so he was about to send me to training, not until he personally called the psychiatrist to confirm…) to which the ktsin miyun replied: “don’t be so sure that the committee will release you”.
When I showed up to the vaada, the ktsin miyun was seated as part of the panel…
They started with directing the question: “do you want to serve?” and irregardless of my reply, I was advised that the committee didn’t find grounds to release me (despite my age, being married, living overseas, profile 45 etc.). But rather accommodate me in other ways it sees suitable.

I must say that your case draws no similarities and the probability of your imminent release is high.


Which country did you live in?

Guest כתב:Come'on... If I were in your position and living abroad I would never even consider returning here


Yeah, that's true.
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי אורח » 11 מאי 2009 07:50

USA

It is indeed tempting to skip the country and not look back (something I did before). However, it so happens that I have family and friends in this part of the world and I do not wish to close all doors behind. A bit of patience and this exasperating saga will be over...
Weef
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי Weef » 11 מאי 2009 08:38

אורח כתב:
אורח כתב:A day or two prior to the vaada I was seeing the ktsin miyun. Coming straight from the psychiatrist, I told the ktsin miyun of his recommendation (apparently, he was unaware of the recommendation so he was about to send me to training, not until he personally called the psychiatrist to confirm…) to which the ktsin miyun replied: “don’t be so sure that the committee will release you”.
When I showed up to the vaada, the ktsin miyun was seated as part of the panel…
They started with directing the question: “do you want to serve?” and irregardless of my reply, I was advised that the committee didn’t find grounds to release me (despite my age, being married, living overseas, profile 45 etc.). But rather accommodate me in other ways it sees suitable.

I must say that your case draws no similarities and the probability of your imminent release is high.


UNFUCKING believable!

If I were you, I would get on the first flight that is leaving tonight, and get the hell out of this country...

Come'on... If I were in your position and living abroad I would never even consider returning here


so damn true
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave
8-Hype
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 11 מאי 2009 16:28

By the way: If I get released, when will I be able to leave the country (vacation)?
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי אורח » 11 מאי 2009 20:02

You can leave as soon as you wish to. The army has no way to restrict your travel plans, only in cases where you're considerd arik or mishtamet would they be able to issue an ikuv knisa / yetsiah.
8-Hype
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 11 מאי 2009 20:12

They told me to call on Sunday, and when I called, they told me to call today, because they didn't know when the committee is going to be. Today they said I should call tomorrow, but that it will probably be on Wednesday. They didn't say any time, however. Does that mean anything (positive or negative)?
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 11 מאי 2009 20:14

it just means they don't know yet
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 11 מאי 2009 20:19

i've added a left alignment bbcode button, so you can align english to the left
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 12 מאי 2009 11:25

My committee is now set for tomorrow, May 13, 12:00. I really hope that this has been pre-decided already (positively).
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 13 מאי 2009 15:40

I was at the committee today and they said they are going to release me! There were 5 officers: 4 lieutenants (סגן) and I talked to the lieutenant colonel (סגן-אלוף). Although he talked in a stuck up manner, he said that they decided to let me go. After that, I briefly talked to someone who works there and he said that this was "only" a recommendation and that only the head officer (I don't know what his rank is, probably colonel (אלוף משנה)) has the final word, but that the chance is 98%.

So is it all but official? Is this just some kind of formality or is there a real chance I am not getting out? Also, which profile will I get if I am released? 24?
אורח

Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי אורח » 13 מאי 2009 22:05

You are indeed released. The procedure mandates that a signature of Mefaked Bakum is required.
As במילא רגוע
had indicated previously, this is only a formality.
The reason for your release is most possibly
שוחרר עקב התנהגות רעה וחמורה
i.e. not for medical/mental reasons so I don’t think that your profile is affected. “24” specifies that one is temporarily unfit for service. In any case, you profile is of no relevance in your civilian life.
Your official discharge document will most probably indicate
עקב אי התאמה
which is a generic clause for anyone who’s released as a result of
וועדת אי התאמה
Much success in your future endeavors
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 14 מאי 2009 07:19

Guest כתב:
The reason for your release is most possibly
שוחרר עקב התנהגות רעה וחמורה


Yeah, that's exactly what they told me. So I guess this is it! :D


Guest כתב:
Much success in your future endeavors


Thanks a lot!
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 14 מאי 2009 13:49

happiness
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 24 מאי 2009 09:28

The committee was 11 days ago and I still didn't get an answer. I'm calling there once in two days, for a week now, and they keep telling me "call back in 2 days". Is this normal? In the beginning they told me it would take a week at most.
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 24 מאי 2009 11:18

within a week is an approximation. I wouldn't even start worrying before two weeks have passed, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while longer. the israeli army is the last stronghold of obtuse bureaucracy. but that also means that you should keep calling, just to keep them in check
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
- מלכוד-22
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי אורח » 25 מאי 2009 12:44

"but that also means that you should keep calling, just to keep them in check"

Let's only warn our friend in advance that he would probably have to deal with mindless 18 year old's on the other side of the line.
Sentences like: call be in a week cause the head is not here and I don't really know like what to tell you like what I need to tell you, sorry.
And the chewing gum makes a sort of a blow sound in your face so you wonder what the hell was that pretty dumbass was good for.

Just letting our friend know what the IDF is all about

good luck anyway dude!

:D
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Re: Getting released from the army

הודעהעל ידי 8-Hype » 25 מאי 2009 15:03

That's it, I got the "Teudat Shihrur" today! A little paper made from carton in postcard format with blue print on it.

"Yeah, the show is over so I'm outta here..." - Andy Milonakis

Guest כתב:Let's only warn our friend in advance that he would probably have to deal with mindless 18 year old's on the other side of the line.
Sentences like: call be in a week cause the head is not here and I don't really know like what to tell you like what I need to tell you, sorry.
And the chewing gum makes a sort of a blow sound in your face so you wonder what the hell was that pretty dumbass was good for.


Dead-on, pretty well said.

Good luck to everyone in here who wants to be released from the army, and anybody who wants to talk to me, you can reach me at "eighthype" (Skype) and "290006864" (ICQ). Peace out!
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הצטרף: 14 פברואר 2009 18:56
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Re: Getting released from the army (I'm officially out!)

הודעהעל ידי במילא רגוע » 25 מאי 2009 18:29

happiness
"אין בך יראת-כבוד לסמכות יתרה או למסורות שאבד עליהן הכלח. אתה מסוכן ומנוון ויש להוציא אותך החוצה ולירות בך."
- מלכוד-22

חזור אל “רשת הליווי לסרבנים ונמנעים”

מי מחובר

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